What You’ll Learn in This Episode
This podcast episode is for anyone thinking about freelancing or building a marketing career from scratch, especially those without a traditional marketing background. Vaibhav Kulkarni, founder of The Startup Mentor, talks with host Jayasty Anandan about his path from a civil engineering diploma to running a blog, then an e-commerce store, then landing an internship that turned into a brand manager role leading a 13-15 person team, before eventually starting his own agency. The conversation covers when to choose a full-time job versus freelancing, how to decide between hiring an in-house team, a freelancer, or an agency, how to price your services across markets like the US, UK, and India, and how to find clients through Reddit and Facebook communities without spending on ads.
[00:00:01.04] – Speaker 1
Today we have Vaibhav Kulkarni, who runs the end-to-end B2B brand management agency for startups. He wears multiple hats himself. He has done content, SEO, social media, lead generation, sales outreach, and more. So today in this podcast, we’ll be covering 3 aspects. First – about his journey, like how he transitioned into digital marketing. Second – how businesses can strategise, like how they can hire different people like an in-house team, freelancers or an agency. The third aspect would be for freelancers, like how they can find clients and how they can do their pricing strategies and stuff. So hi Vaibhav, welcome to the podcast.
[00:00:42.29] – Speaker 2
Hi Jayasty, thank you so much for a great introduction.
[00:00:46.23] – Speaker 1
You’re welcome. And now the floor is yours. You can start by sharing your journey, how you transitioned into digital marketing. I understand that you come from a civil engineering background, but still I would want to know like how you switched into digital marketing. What made you switch into digital marketing? And then we can go ahead with other questions.
[00:01:06.26] – Speaker 2
Great. Sure. So I have studied civil engineering, and how this has started is when I was in a diploma. So generally people do 11th and 12th, and then they move to engineering. But what I’ve done a diploma in civil engineering. When I was in the second year of this, I was just looking, you know, what can be done. My elder brother was into computer science and IT. So because of him, I got access to the internet and a computer. So lucky of me. So, you know, that just sparked a curiosity that how do people make money online? Because I think that time it was very new. Not a lot of people had it, and I’m talking with regard to the 2016-17 time where there was the pre-Jio era, basically, you know, there were only a few people who had home broadband and that stuff. So it started then that I started thinking about how I could make money. I came to know about some of the bloggers who used to make a great amount of money just by blogging. What they liked about. Now I have been, earlier, you know, always curious about technology and how it works and everything.
[00:02:03.02] – Speaker 2
And my thing is, you know, I understand technology very easily, and I just wanted to express it, whatever I understand, like how, why, how-to tutorials and these kinds of stuff. So I started working on my blog, that’s The Mind Feed. And I was posting every new article every day after my college time. I used to write it, and I used to post it. And I think within 2 years, it got around 5,000 visits per day. So it was doing great. I think at a point there is something called Alexa rank. So for that rank, I went down, like lesser your rank is, the better your website is performing. So at some point my rank was around 60,000, like, and there is a website which has a million in rank, like, you know, that kind. So it was really doing great. But then I, again, something new sparked to me, and that is e-commerce. So in 2019, this is the thing that caught my attention that, you know, a lot of people now these days are selling online. How can I do that? Because content is something I know; I figured it out.
[00:03:03.23] – Speaker 2
I learned a lot of new skills during that process, and I gathered that skill and I, particularly, but I was also curious about how people sell online. So I started looking for that. I came to know about print on demand, which is basically you hire a third-party company. They have their own set of products. You put your design, and you sell it. So I learned again, like right from, you know, how to build a store, performance marketing, design graphics. So all these things I have done by myself. Also, to some extent, email marketing, because what has happened is I was also reaching out to colleges in the nearby city so that we know that there is this, you know, festive things that are happening in college. Like there are these gatherings that happen. So I was just approaching them if they needed printing of T-shirts for their brand. That worked out well for me. I kind of went to that. I worked with that. And eventually, as I was doing great, we all know that COVID happened. Everything broke down. Essential goods were only allowed to be delivered. And my entire cycle stopped working. My ads started crumbling. And then I thought, I thought of taking a pause and, you know, reflecting that you’re just a graduate now, like you’re about to graduate now.
[00:04:14.25] – Speaker 2
And, you know, maybe you should take more experience first and then you, like, you know, do something like this. So I started to look for any of, you know, role as an intern or anything that I can get. Meanwhile, I have also completed Google digital marketing workshops. I also completed Digital Deepak’s digital marketing. Like, it’s kind of an internship kind of pattern where he used to teach you. So you have to execute on stuff.
[00:04:41.18] – Speaker 1
Even I was part of it actually.
[00:04:43.23] – Speaker 2
Correct. So it was great actually, like that, that initial exposure was great. And based on that, I got an internship that was in Jaipur. Pay was not that great, honestly, given that I had already done so many things, but pay was not great. But for me, I think that at that point, it was not about the pay, but you know, what kind of role, because my passion at that time was e-commerce and I was getting that opportunity to create a brand from scratch. So that is what intrigued me to go there. I went there; I literally didn’t know anyone, nothing about anything. I just landed there, you know, and we started creating our Etsy store. So they were like one of the biggest export houses, you know, so they already had some understanding of how to create products and basic stuff, but then they were not aware of how to sell online. So that initial setup for their Etsy, right from the, you know, product, like how, which product we should select, then the initial photoshoot part, the description part, optimising Etsy listings. And as soon as we started, within 20 days of me joining, on the 21st day, we got our first order.
[00:05:48.29] – Speaker 2
And I still remember the day, you know, it’s in front of my eyes. I’m seeing that order. So it was so amazing to see, you know, because this time when I was selling online, it was not just selling in India. The order came from outside. So even that was super exciting for me. And that again brings something very new to me. So that went well. Like, I joined there as a digital marketing intern. The next year, I was promoted to digital marketing manager. And then, then the next year, I was promoted to brand manager, where I was heading a team of around 13 to 15 people, where, you know, from various aspects, from PR and everything. And since I was managing the brand, I got exposure in almost every domain. Like whether it’s content, digital marketing, performance, photo shoot, PR, operations, shipping, logistics, and everything. So it’s like, you know, you’ve got to set up everything by yourself, with your hands, where you’re making decisions. So that experience was super amazing for me. And then I realised that this individual who I was working with, and I, I really admire him because, you know, he was the owner; he has never made me feel like he’s the owner; he worked like a friend, and, you know, like, he’s also acted as a mentor.
[00:07:04.14] – Speaker 2
His name is Nimit Singh. He’s the founder of the Live Linen brand that I used to work for. So he’s really helped me to go through that journey. He always made me feel like a part of their family. So I thought, you know, maybe if I came here, I started, like, you know, I helped them, maybe I can help more people. So that thing kind of, you know, struck me, and I thought of, you know, why not? I was working on the same thing here when I was managing brand end to end. Why can’t I do this as a part of offering a service? So I started this agency. It’s called the Startup Mentor, where, like, as you mentioned, you know, we offer end-to-end brand management service irrespective of what stage you are right now and what, you know, requirements are. So that’s how this entire journey has been just so far.
[00:07:53.09] – Speaker 1
Okay. So you have worked in a full-time job, and you have worked as a freelancer as well. So could you shed some light on the positive and negative aspects of a full-time job and freelancing so that people can decide, like, what they can choose as a digital marketer?
[00:08:10.04] – Speaker 2
Definitely. So by the time I have decided that, you know, maybe I will leave my job and then look to do something of my own. I started to think, how can I do this? And then, you know, looking online, reading some resources, stuff here and there, I kind of found out that, you know, it’s good to start while you are doing a job, to start taking small, small projects. You don’t really need to take too long, too big projects. At least start taking some projects that will build some sort of income for you. So by the time you leave your job, you don’t really have to, you know, struggle a lot to get that first client or whatever it might be, because you already have a portfolio. So I did that and, like, luckily, I think people saw me working with my previous organisation, and some of the recommendations came through that way. I got some initial clients that way.
[00:08:58.04] – Speaker 1
Okay.
[00:08:58.24] – Speaker 2
And I think by the time I left my job earlier, I was already making more than my salary. So I was very comfortable leaving that job without any hesitation. And to be honest with you, I don’t know, like a lot of people don’t get this kind of colleagues and bosses. But for me, I always kept it very transparent. Like I told my boss that, hey, I’m doing this kind of freelancing, and he was very supportive. He only said to me this thing, unless you’re not doing anything within my work hours, I’m okay. You are doing anything. You just don’t do anything in my official work hours, you know? So that kind of started. And as you asked that what is easier, how it went. So earlier I used to work from 9 to 6:30. Now I work every day throughout the week. So some people think that, you know, getting into freelancing, doing something of our own, is more freedom. It’s definitely more freedom, but you have to be on top of everything now because, you know, in an organisation you manage a certain part of it. When you’re doing something of your own, maybe even if it’s freelancing, right, you have to do it yourself.
[00:10:03.12] – Speaker 2
Everything has to be done by yourself. You have to look for new clients. You have to maintain relationships with existing clients. You have to, if you are a solo freelancer, like what I mean is, if you’re not building a team, you also have to, like, execute on stuff that you are promising to your client. You have to meet their expectations. So definitely it is not easy, but it is definitely very fruitful. Like I can’t really tell you that, you know, the kind of growth you get when you enter into something like this. But given that, I think people should also think about whether they can afford it. If they cannot afford it, because in some cases there are some family conditions, there are some family responsibilities that, you know, you have to be part of, and you can’t really shed them off right now. And I think that is where a lot of people go wrong, where they either first directly leave their job without having anything in hand, then they start looking for a project where they don’t have any portfolio ready. They don’t, you know, have anything ready. And it’s very genuine that no one is going to trust you until you provide them proof of your work.
[00:11:03.02] – Speaker 2
So you have to be ready with that, and then you should approach them. You should not directly, you know, go approach, and people go wrong here, and then eventually they say freelancing does not work, these kinds of stuff.
[00:11:17.03] – Speaker 1
So basically, either they should be doing their full-time job first, and simultaneously they should try freelancing or have enough savings so that when they are experimenting with their freelancing journey, they at least have some savings. Also, they can take care of their family responsibilities if there is.
[00:11:35.11] – Speaker 2
Yeah, not really that they have to do a job, but it’s always better if they do a job because they understand a lot of things, how to work with a team, irrespective of whether you hire a team for yourself or your client has a team, but you need to understand, you know, that aspect as well, how to work with a team, because I have seen some people who directly went to, you know, as a founder directly without any work experience. And they initially struggled a bit in terms of working with clients because they have never been in that pressure kind of environment where they have to compromise on some point they have to, you know, make, and I don’t know, but it’s said in Hindi, Marathi, and I think various languages in India that, you know, you have to have sweet in your mouth when you’re doing a business. Like you cannot always do whatever you want to do. Sometimes you have to take a back step, understand the client because they also have their own frustrations and things. Right. So yeah, I think it’s not necessarily that you do a job and then do it. Now I think a lot of freelancers directly start.
[00:12:33.15] – Speaker 2
But one thing, if you ask me what cannot be like, you know, missed, that is working and building some sort of portfolio. You have to do that. Without that, it’s not possible.
[00:12:43.26] – Speaker 1
Okay. So maybe they can also do it like this: they do a full-time job, build some portfolio from there itself, and then show that to the prospects and then start freelancing. That would be a good way in that case. Okay. Then, as you said, you have your agency, and you work with an in-house team, and you also collaborate with freelancers. So how do you strategise this to work with your clients? Like you have international clients as well and Indian clients as well. So how do you strategise work?
[00:13:15.10] – Speaker 2
So yeah, I think a very viable question because when you’re starting as a freelancer, you don’t really have a team. So you have to build collaborations and, you know, sometimes you get a very big client for which you don’t have an in-house team ready. Right. So what do you do? What should you do? I think collaboration is a great way of working because, when I started, I think, you know, a lot of projects I take, I kind of collaborate because if you, if I ask you, would you like to work for me, right? Most of the people say No, I would like to work on my own, right? So it’s the same thing. They get the freedom of working on their own while they are also committed to you that any project came through you, I will work dedicatedly on this. I will deliver the quality. I will deliver it within the time. And if you, if they are meeting this criteria, I think we should, like, I am at least okay with that criteria. And so far I think I have done like a lot, a lot of projects. Like I think more than 12 projects in collaboration with these people.
[00:14:06.17] – Speaker 2
Whoever I have someone for a design, I have someone for product photography, and I have someone for content writing in collaboration. I think it works well because they have freedom. They have their own stuff to do. They can, you know, also, second, since they are working with different people, they are much sharper than anyone who is working in one particular agency or thing because they’re actually working. It’s not that, you know, they’re just learning stuff. They’re executing in different industries, different things. So it’s definitely better to work on collaborations earlier if you can’t afford it. But when you scale, when you work on very large projects and, you know, as you have now, it’s the time when you have to build an in-house team, then I think you should definitely build an in-house team. But when you’re starting up, I think it’s always great that you start with collaboration. And even if you want to hire someone, maybe you don’t really need to hire them first. Talk to them, ask them, hey, you know, you don’t really need to come down to the city or whatever it might be.
[00:15:05.07] – Speaker 2
You can start working remotely for me, maybe part-time, maybe full-time. Try to understand if this suits your brand requirement without making them a difficult decision, without, you know, having that responsibility on you. So you can go a middle route in all of this and start working on this model where partially the role is required. So for example, I have a small in-house team, right, where we have access to clients’ LinkedIn accounts, email accounts, and this stuff. Now this is a sensitive area where I cannot hand it over to someone else, so I have to build a team in-house which they do in front of me, or at least in a controlled environment, so that my clients’ accounts and those things are not compromised. And I, I wanted to make sure that their safety is assured, right? So, in such roles where you feel are sensitive, you can build an in-house team where such roles where creativity matters, where, you know, quality matters. And if you’re getting people for quality, I think you should not like think much about it, and you can do this in-house plus a collaboration approach together as well.
[00:16:09.01] – Speaker 1
That’s a good strategy. Okay. Now we’ll come to the businesses. If there is a business that wants to hire digital marketers, how should they strategise? Like, how do, should, should they do their hiring process- whether they should have an in-house team or they should hire an agency or a freelancer? So how do they work with people like this?
[00:16:33.27] – Speaker 2
I think it depends on the brand to brand. It varies based on their budget and everything. If you are a funded company, if you have great projects, I would suggest definitely go for an in-house team. And the reason I’m saying this is that now how to go is different. Like how to go, I just explained, you know, you can maybe start with them on a remote basis, then you can enrol them on a full-time basis. But when there is a very dedicated, sensitive, or this kind of work required, they should go with an in-house team, right? But if there is any expertise that is required, because a lot of people who are experts in a particular domain, they would not necessarily be open to working for you, then you have to get their expertise. So in that case, you can explore such avenues like freelancing and this thing. And I would only again say one thing which I think a lot of people miss. When you are hiring someone, never go with anyone who doesn’t have proof of work or anything, because a lot of people fall for that. Like a lot of people are good with selling, and then they sell you ambition.
[00:17:31.25] – Speaker 2
Hey, I will get you 10 meetings a day. Things do not work. And at the end, right? So you have to be looking if they have done it for someone else first. Now, as a freelancer, I know a lot of people will kind of backlash me up on this. Why are you saying this? Why? How will people get, you know, kind of work experience? Everyone is experienced. But that’s not really the case. You know, people can get experience. They don’t really need to have a client for it. They can do their own work. They can find a client for themselves, and they can pick it as a case study, right? It’s not that hard to work on your own thing, own projects, make it a case study and get work. Even that case study, if someone has one, I think you should be okay to hire them, but I think you should hire someone based on results only. So this is, I believe, and when it comes to agency, I believe a lot of agencies, what happens is they work with multiple clients at the same time. So the problem really comes with the kind of bandwidth, the kind of quality they deliver to you and everything.
[00:18:27.21] – Speaker 2
So I think there should always be a stop point whenever you’re working with an agency. First is definitely evaluating the results and what clients they have worked with. The third part is always that there needs to be a stop point and, you know, a timeline. So this is my expected result. This is the month I would be expecting this result. If you have failure, if you fail to deliver this, you know, I’m not going to work with you because the problem is that once you start, you feel that, you know, oh, okay. So I started with this. There is no result right now. And then the agency tends to sell you that, oh, we have come half the way. Let’s give me some more months. I will get you the results. But if they were able to do that, they would have been able to do it within the initial timeline, right? Because the initial timeline that they have provided is provided by them. It’s not you that you asked them to provide, right? So be mindful of, I think, these things. And I think you should be good with hiring agencies and everything. I think recently the scenario has kind of uplifted.
[00:19:21.20] – Speaker 2
By what I mean is it’s kind of started working better now. You know, people understand that results are what matter. And I think people have also agencies, or whether it’s freelancer has started working in that direction right now, where they also kind of tend to work based on results. There are some agencies that don’t even charge you anything. And they say, when we work with you, when you get results, pay us. So you can look for such approaches as well.
[00:19:49.04] – Speaker 1
Okay, do agencies also do that? Like, I thought freelancers only do such things, like if you don’t get results, we’ll work for free.
[00:19:56.04] – Speaker 2
Yeah, agencies also do. So agencies are basically multiple freelancers coming together; they become a group, and then you basically— so it’s not applicable on different – like, what I mean to say, it’s applicable maybe, you know, where there is a sales, where there is a meeting appointment setting. So these kinds of areas work on the performance or, you know, role, like output-based. But if you go for maybe a graphic design agency, right, or maybe a branding agency, so that work itself is not something where it’s driven by the output because there is effort that is involved, right? So things cannot be worked like that. But the work where, you know, it’s metric-driven, for example, performance marketing, where you get sales, where, for example, booking appointments. So I think these things can be done based on the results.
[00:20:41.12] – Speaker 1
Yeah. Okay. Okay. So you have worked with different clients, like across different countries, like the US, the UK, and India. So how do you strategise your pricing for different markets?
[00:20:52.06] – Speaker 2
Yeah, I think there are multiple folds to this. And as I said, you know, when you are doing freelancing or when you have an agency, you have to put your head in everything. And what I mean by this is this. So even if you have to figure out a pricing, you have to look for various resources. Now I think it’s slightly easier these days with AI and ChatGPT; you can ask them what I should price it at, etc. But earlier, I think how I used to do it is basically go on Upwork, enter the keyword or the kind of role, look at what country these people are, you know, coming out of, what kind of price range they have mentioned for different works. Like just looking at multiple jobs, you’ll get an idea of what range prices vary, right? Look for your expertise: where you lag, where you’re a fresher, are you intermediate, are you an expert? Based on that, you can filter out the pricing. Also, you can ask Google. I think Google also provides you a tentative idea of, you know, if you even just search how much does a digital marketing strategy cost in maybe the UK, US, it will give you a tentative idea.
[00:21:51.26] – Speaker 2
Now, fit pick up those all figures, put in your personal experience, everything, time required and everything, and you can come up with a price. It’s not always going to be 100% correct because, you know, it may vary. It also depends on the kind of company you’re working with. For example, startups may not be able to afford the same price as big enterprises, right? So you also have to think based on client to client, but I think these are the few ideas you can do. And then now I think ChatGPT, this DeepSeek and everything is there, which you can just consult with them. And I think they can provide you a pretty good pricing point.
[00:22:26.26] – Speaker 1
All right. So now we’ll move to a freelancer’s point of view. So you had mentioned earlier in our conversation that you find your clients from Reddit and Facebook groups. So can you just share some client acquisition strategies that have worked for you and things that didn’t work for you?
[00:22:44.08] – Speaker 2
Yeah, so I think a lot of people miss one thing: they think that, you know, paid media or running ads is the only way to get a client. But that’s not true, actually. You don’t even have to send emails. What you can do is invest your time in engaging with people. Now there are different communities on Reddit. There are different communities on Facebook. Which you can leverage. For example, there is a community on Reddit. It’s called SaaS, software as a service. Looking for that kind of client or that domain client, right? You can go there. There are people talking about their struggles. They’re talking about their experiences, their journey. Some people are thinking about, you know, and then comments are the interesting part because a lot of the time when someone shares their case study, a lot of people comment, and they kind of point out, hey, I’m facing this struggle, and that becomes your point of interaction with them, where you genuinely try to answer their questions and help them. And also, after some, you know, interactions, you can basically ask them, hey, since you’re struggling and I offer similar services, would you mind if I share with you some of the work samples that I have done with prior?
[00:23:47.25] – Speaker 2
Never, never outreach saying that, you know, I can offer you this and this, this, this, and this. Always provide proof of work with, you know, whatever you have done so far, because I think that is the only way I told you here: without proof of work, never hire anyone. I think that is the case. A lot of people understand, and they don’t hire you. If you don’t have proof of work. So that is that. Similarly, there are multiple networking groups on Facebook, such as Mumbai networking groups. There are multiple, like New York networking groups. Not all these groups are quality groups, but you have to figure out what those 3 to 5 or 10 groups max are quality groups. And so one of my clients who is based out of Austin, I just went through an Austin networking group with him. And Austin is basically in Texas, US. So I met him through, you know, this particular thing. I was just posting about some stuff. He commented on that. I had a Facebook chat with him. Then we connected on WhatsApp. We had more chat. We connected through Zoom. We connected.
[00:24:46.22] – Speaker 2
He shared his passion and, you know, what he really wants to perceive. He asked me what experiences I have and whether I could be of any help to him. And eventually it formalised into a client relationship. So, you know, it’s not necessarily that when you approach someone, they’re going to convert right away. It takes time, but this is a no-cost thing, right? You don’t have to invest a lot. Just 10-15 minutes on each of these exercises should be more than enough to get your clients. And the good part is when you do it this way, your relationship with these kinds of clients is very good because they have kind of known you. They’re not working directly with you because someone- you’re just offering a service. Yeah. They kind of take that time. They try to understand your journey, what you have done so far. So they already know enough about you so that they don’t have a second thought about you. And it really works well. I have been working for this client, I think, for more than a year and a half, I guess now. Yeah, more than a year and a half now.
[00:25:44.12] – Speaker 2
And it’s good. Like he gets what he needs. I do my work within my timeframe. So yeah, I think these are some avenues. Now, one of the areas that I don’t know if I should suggest this or not. If you’re a freelancer who has never worked for any client so far, right? And you’re completely a freelancer with no experience, anything. First, as I mentioned, you should work on your portfolio, but then there are platforms such as Internshala.
[00:26:09.13] – Speaker 1
Yeah.
[00:26:09.21] – Speaker 2
Go for it, apply for some internship. Tell them that you’re doing this; you would like to do this as a freelancer and not as an intern. And you would like to present this as a scenario or a case study, right? So that they understand you are coming from a freelancer background. So this is again a case study. With me. So when I was starting up after the job, although I was working with some of the clients, I got an internship kind of work with a company that is a very big funded company. I started very small, like maybe 10-15,000 with them, and eventually it grew to 50K plus of work per month. So, you know, not necessarily that the traditional way is the only way. You can exercise this stuff with different things. Look what works for you because something might work for me that might not work for you. But be mindful of all the opportunities; at least give it a try. And then I think you should figure out what is working for you, what is not working for you, and just focus on those areas where it’s working for you.
[00:27:07.20] – Speaker 1
All right. Then one last final question. What final piece of advice would you like to give to someone who wants to transition into digital marketing?
[00:27:16.26] – Speaker 2
Okay. You mean someone who has never been experienced in digital marketing transitioning into digital marketing?
[00:27:22.08] – Speaker 1
But wants to switch. Yeah. How can they get started?
[00:27:25.28] – Speaker 2
Right. I think now, I think there are a lot of free resources available. Educate yourself. Now, a lot of questions people ask are what to start with, right? I think there are a lot of things like under the digital marketing umbrella, there is email marketing, performance ads, and various things that I think one can choose. Now it depends on your interest first, what that, what feels fascinating to you. Like, does performance marketing make you feel good or are you scared of that? If you feel scared of that, don’t do that. If you feel comfortable, if you feel, oh, okay, so this is something I can do. So I think that initial research is important: what happens in paid marketing, what happens in email marketing, what kind of work you have to do. So I think do that homework. I think nowadays ChatGPT and these AI tools do a great job. If you just ask them that, you know, I want to start a career, tell me what are the different streams. Also tell me what happens in each stream. What can be my metric that I will be evaluated on? What kind of pay can I expect out of this?
[00:28:26.28] – Speaker 2
How long might it take? You know, so this evaluation first you do. Once you are done with the evaluation, you have an idea about what needs to be chosen as your path. Look for resources. There are a lot of free courses plus paid courses. If you are someone who doesn’t have a lot of investment, I think. Google and YouTube are your friends. Go to YouTube, search for courses. The only downside to that is you don’t have, you know, certifications to prove that. So if you have some sort of money, not more than, you know, ₹1,000 or something, there are some really great courses on Udemy. You can use that. They also give you certification, so you can choose that and go for it. Like, you know, do a course, as I mentioned, and go for some sort of your own project. Or just email any company. And guys, I think a lot of people miss on this is that, you know, if someone approached you and told you, hey, Webho, can I work for you for free? Just give me certification. Just guide me as a mentor and just help. I think anyone would be happy to help you in that way.
[00:29:26.23] – Speaker 2
Just work for anyone for free or a very decent stipend, which will give you that experience, which will give you that portfolio kind of thing. And I think you can, you can start that way where you have 1 or 2 portfolios, and you have experience, because what happens is when you work on an intern level, where you work for someone for free, though, they don’t really expect a lot of you, but that gives you a way to gauge yourself whether you can do it or not. And if you can do it, I think there are no limitations. You can basically go in any direction. You can upskill on that.